Parents of Schoolgoers  Discussion Forum

Hello everybody,
With all due respect to all the DILs sharing their opinions in this forum, I understand that life is not easy for a woman who leaves her home of 25 years or so to adjust to the new culture and family ideologies. However, I wanted to ask all the sons and DILs a question of why they have a problem in having parents at their place? Specially the guys parents? Dont you think that they have an equal right over their son as you have over your husband? Most of the hindu marraiges of different cultures are pretty much the same. If you look closely at the marraige rituals, what they mean is that the daughter is married to the entire family and not only to the guy. His parents become her parents and his family becomes her family. That is basically the culture of India. Based on culture and also ethics, i guess, its the responsibility of the guy to take care of his parents and his wife being an important part of his family also follow suit. Dowry related harrassments, i understand should not be considered as that is wrong on the part of the guys parents, and i dont mind hanging them upside down and giving them a good spanking. But, the issue of privacy and independence. Dont you ladies think that they had sacrificed their privacy for their children, just as you would in coming years for your kids. Now, when its time for you to adjust, you want to get out of the responsibility in the name of privacy and independence? Thats the culture of the western countries, and there is nothing wrong in that, but in that case, why dont you follow it completely where a guy gets out of the house as soon as he turns around 15 and starts fighting his own life. Here, you want to stay with your parents till you are 23-24 and as soon as you become financially independent, you want to have your privacy forgetting that just like you were dependent on your parents for the first 20 odd years of your life, your parents are dependent on you for the last 20 odd years of their life. Interfering is definately going to be there, but, can it not be taken in a positive sense and the parents told politely about it? Does there always need to be a fight between MIL and DIL? Specially, when the ladies are all well educated and have excellent manners? The problem, that i have observed with many ladies these days is that they are not able to accept the guys family as their own, so if his parents scold them, they think that no outsider is supposed to tell them anything. Would they do the same thing if their own parents had told them something similar? Also, i ask the guys that what is your priority? Your parents who raised you guys for more than 20 years, or the wife with whom you have spent less than 10 % of that time?? By the way, i am a guy who respects my wife's parents however do maintain that they are not a part of our family, they may be close relatives, however, not an integral part of our families.

leena replied. Firstly i would like to say that we do say when we do our rituals that our husbands parents will be our parents but they have to earn that aswell to gain respect u have to give respect. And question why do mil always say that they treat dil like their own daughters when they typically don' t.
Ok so u say that when mil say something to dil then we take it as scolding so they why when dil say somthing to the mil they say we have no respect when i would tell my own mum things if i didnt agree. It is always expected of the dil to adjust and put up with the the rubbish that the inlaws dish out and on top of it the husband does not speak up knowing the parents are at fault, but they inlaws never want to change their views or try to compromise.
Yes the son has a priority and yes teh parents have raised their children for the last 20-30 years but hey u wanted children so u mean to tell me that all parents have children so that they can have someoen to look after them when they are old...NO NO NO which planet u guys living on.
I hve a son and let me tell u i brought him into this world because i wanted a baby and a family and symbol of my love with my husband NOT AND I STATE NOT FOR US TO BE DEPENDENT ON HIM IN 30 YEARS TIME. I am bringing my son up to become independent,educate himself and have a good career not to look after us. we are capable and have made provisions for our old age. I think people that think like that are old fashioned and selfish.
u do things for ur children cause u want to not for ur own benefits.
A mil will always be a mil and nothing more as they alwasy are stuck in their own egos and never want to compromise. And as husbands cant speak up now the day has come that dil have to speak and put things right.
If u wanted privacy then u should not have had kids.
I have a child but i have gone back to work full time not because i need the money but because i want my own independence and i want my son to have that aswell not become a total mummys boy like most sons are nowadays.
i want my son to be my friend not my son and my daughter inlaw also to be a friend not my daughther or dil. sonia replied. hi job,

it' s fascinating how u drag indian culture into the conversation at all times. what a spineless person u must be. please don' t fool yourself into thinking that ur wife is happy with ur treating her family as \" not part of family, but as relatives\" . Yuck, what a terrible attitude. Ur poor wife has probably accepted u as part of her destiny, explaining to herself that it is her bad luck to get a chauvinistic life-partner like yourself. Don' t mistake that acceptance for genuine love and respect. That comes only when there is genuine love, respect and equality from both sides. Look around u, you' ll find several couples where the husband and wife are life-partners not slave and master. Sheesh, I do feel for ur wife. People like you make me so mad, at the same time one pities your archaic attitude.
pari replied. hello all,
the debate over here seems to me the hottest topic so far with soooo many different and looooooong replies...but i say one thing--- only a girl is known as parayi in the parents house and begani(outsider) in the inlaws house..tell me then who does a girl belong tooo....?????
the ladies r one of the most enduring...more than man... when not all ofcourse..but if things go wrong the girl is always to be blamed..may i ask y??? y does like this happen..y r we called match sticks ke ladkiyan toh aag laga deti hai..y
hum aag lagati nahin hai...
what say ladies saheli replied. Thanks for appreciation Job ..
But in all my messages i hv been trying to provoke you .. trying to provoke the men of today.

I think its time you guys start saying your words.

All this time, the DIL had been sufferring, but the hubbies never said anything.

Now times are changing, and there are DILs who make the in-laws suffer, and hubbies (i dont blame them though, it is the decency and manners too much that stop them) ar quiet.

Pls fo justice. Speak up.

I disagree to your point that \" it was settled before your marriage that ur parents will stay with you\" . I disagree - because this has to come obviously. There is no need of discussion. Parents will stay with children, and every DIL/hubby shd take it for granted.

My respect is towards parents, be it wife's or hubbies.

U r right, india settled the culture that the 'boys' shd take care of parents ... and thus addressed old-age for everybody. India never had any partiality in mind, just that it got exaggerated over time.

So even if girl's parents are alone, its the resp of her daughters .. let them stay with u/near u and both hubby and wife shd take care of both parents in this situation ... might share the load as they want.

so m happy we seem to be on the same page .. at the end of discussion :) neela replied. Job, thanks for your response. Appreciate your honesty. Glad that you stick up for your wife when she is right - you ask why so many women have this problem.

In many cases, many men get stuck in the initial period you talk about (when you say you are not god, have been biased, trusted parents more than wife) - Some men are so biased that a DIL is EVIL that they refuse to change that attitude even after 50 years of marriage! I am sure even you have noticed this among your friends. I am very glad for your wife you are not like that..

Also, asking politely part - polite and impolite are the perception of the viewer - in my case as with many women, what is said normally without any ulterior motives is usually ascribed some ulterior motive..

Eg: mom, would you mind if I keep stuff here?
MIL: Are you trying to tell me I don't know where to keep things?
Then creating a furore and hulla and complaining to the whole world that my DIL does not respect me, she tries to point out that I don't know how to keep things.....

Again, you can let it slide 99 times, but 100th time even Buddha and Jesus would lose patience no? Not that any of us ladies are as exalted either...!!!

Yes, guys do go through a tough phase of being sandwiched between two people they love. Between being a woman and a guy which would you pick though in today's indian society? Please be honest...I think a woman't lot is worse becos not only is she in an alien atmosphere (in-laws ARE strangers to her when she marries) but the expectations from her are WAY tooooo high - to be a role model, breadwinner, never talk back, dress right, look right and on top of that criticism of her is a free-for-all - Any Tom, Dick or Harry can take a go at her anytime for her behavior!!!! Atleast as a guy you are shown respect at home and at in-laws place....women are humiliated and put down, men are sandwiched - Hey, I'd rather take the sandwich any day!!!

About your sister - You say that your sister is happy in the joint family - Let me tell you something that a lot of indian women do...

They feel that their parents are already troubled by a lot of things so to prevent them from feeling bad, they go out of their way to portray to their family that they are happy....

Second, you say she has always put them in front of you - but do ask her, when her husband/in-laws/your parents are not around, what she really feels about them , has she been hurt etc.? Just tell her that she is lucky to get such accepting in-laws and watch her react!

I feel the answers you may get may actually shock you - the reason I say this is that usually lot of Indian Women think it is a matter of pride to portray that they have good in-laws / they are coping very well etc. The reality is very difficult and usually only shared with the mom of the family. Not even with dad and brother.

If you ask your sister specific questions of what she was told, how did she react initially etc. , you would be surprised to find that she reacted the same way as your wife!

Again, I say from the perspective of what a lot of women tell their brothers versus what is actually true.....Believe me unless a woman gets married into a fly with no MIL / no SIL they react in similar ways to many women in this board - All of us have gone through the phase when we were immature and come out of it so your sister and your wife are no exceptions to it! One woman is not better than the other - believe me! I have a SIL on both sides - For my own ego, I try to portray that I am better than them, but honestly I don't think there is much of a difference - in reality, we are all very alike!!!

If for a minute you can accept that your wife is dealing with her in-laws the same way your sister did with hers (give or take couple of points here and there), you will find a marked difference in the way you view your wife is what I think. If you think your sister is a saint who never said anything back or never brought up issues with her husband or fought with him, never said anything impolite, you have a highly idealized image of her - she is a woman too! Probably you don't know the details of it that is all....

Thanks again for your response...
Neela

RRR replied. \" GROW UP\"
```You say u r not biased even after being biassed. Your biasness is shown in each & every word u just spit out.
````Your wife is a human being & not a doll. She has her own emotions. She doesn't have to act according to \" your \" wishes.
`````Your parents are \" outsiders\" to \" HER\" just as \" her\" parents to you.
``````Our ancient text is completely misunderstood & \" altered\" by some hypocrites. For example...when they say \" matru devo bhava\" , it means.. \" Let the mother be God\" & not that \" Mother is God\" ..
``````I have concluded by my own research that \" our generation of Indian men\" is the worst generation ever born. It was not so in the previous generations. Old people were \" taken care of\" back then but they did not rule the house hold.
``` When you say that u don't want to comment any further, its so typical of Indian men..its called \" escapism\" ...Thats what they do in the time of crisis or when they have to stand up.
I pray for your wife & hope that she gives birth only to daughters to put some sense in own hypocrite mind.
job replied. Hello,
I had mentioned in my last message that i wont comment further, however, after Neela has taken so much pain and wrote some really good things, i was compelled to atleast reply. First of all, let me clarify that I do have a sister who is married about 14 years back and is also living in a joint family. She also has heard comments about us in the initial part, however, she chose to keep quiet and as time went by, she is at this point pretty much the decision maker in the household. It took her time to win the confidence and faith of all the household members, but, she always put them in front of us and now she has won their hearts. Regarding me and my wife, initially, even we had lots of differences between us and between her and my parents. My advise to her always was to be polite and not loose cool, as that is what i have been taught, that if you disagree with your elders, then say it so politely. You are not supposed to pick up a fight. Where she has been polite, i have supported her and made my parents understand or made her understand. The problem is that even the husbands have to go through a lot of pain, as what happens is that if they listen to their mom, wife calls them mamas boy, and if they listen to their wife, mom calls them henpecked, so there also needs to be a balance and the guy has to be neutral and look at things from a neutral perspective. I dont say i am god and i have never been biased, so, it did happen that i have trusted my parents more than my wife, as they have been with me more than her. However, from my own observations, whenever, she has been polite, its been easier for me to judge from a neutral point of view, maybe thats because of what has been ingrained in me from my childhood to never backanswer. Also, i used to put the same question to my wife as to would she speak with her parents in case of disagreeing like she used to do with my parents? and then she would realise that she is indeed not treating my parents like her own. Now, by gods grace, things have worked out, in the sense, we both have also matured over the time and so has our relation. We trust each other much more than our initial days. What i was trying to do in this discussion was trying to understand why these things happen in so many households. i was trying to see the ladies view point. I do have these kind of discussions with my wife as well, which makes our relationship healthier. Neela replied. Dear all,

I used to respond to this site but have been following along quietly for a while. Now that I see an interesting discussion raised by Job somehow I could not stay away - the reason being I am convinced that helping people like Job who want to understand our feelings and educating him about what we go through can actually help our society - As they say \" educate a woman, you educate a family\" similarly I think now-a-days if we can change the perceptions of even one man, he will help us change society....

So dear Job, first of all thank you for taking the time and energy to type up your message and your points of view, which at first glance seem quite valid.

Your idea of the family being an organization, where the dil joins in and later takes over is very much appreciated. As also your points about why there is no smooth transition...

Now think about your company where the boss wants to transition an employee - usually you help the person by giving them pointers - and so you say why can't a woman take these pointers in the right sense?

Now imagine the same scenario when you first went to college - remember ragging? Remember how the seniors are always right and you have to kowtow to them to do anything.....

Unfortunately Job, most women, and I disagree with Saheli here becos I feel 99% of women actually get in trying to impress in-laws, husband, the society and trying to be a model employee, find that instead of entering a smooth organization they are joining a hostile, ragging kind-of environment....However in many cases the ragging is done subtly in the absence of the \" men of the family\" ...I can substantiate this with an example:

1. Let us say the DIL is the primary cook in the family - usually she prefers to keep things in a place that is convenient for her. Some MILs go out of the way to change the way things are placed to mess her up and make her cooking slower....

Now as you know, this is in no way good for the family that DIL has to spend extra time searching for things in the kitchen - BUT here is the problem. When the DIL says POLITELY that she prefers it in a certain way - the power struggle starts. Either she is branded as rude, unmannered, uncouth etc. or worse, she is told that she is being told something for her own good.

Unfortunately changing times make it difficult for a MIL to know what is best - For eg. when my mom (who BTW is a wonder-woman who keeps good relations with all her in-laws) was married, she was pressurised by her in-law family to use a coal-stove instead of a pressure cooker -reason, rice just doesn't taste good in a cooker!!! Now you know that we all use only pressure cooker as convenience and she still regrets the hours nad hours she spent toiling in the kitchen - hours she could have spent doing something else productive.

The point I am trying to make is that with changing times, older people are not equipped to make all the \" right decisions\" - and when younger people come up with solutions, in-laws feel that they are being put-down or made to feel inadequate - but tell me, if it is an organization, what is best for your organization?

Coming back to my earlier issue of creation of a ragging like hostile environment - Now, in a company, if the employee is constantly made to feel insecure, criticized and inadequate, in what way is it good for the corporation? Unfortunately many MILs are possessive of their sons. They worry that the newcomer will prevent the son from doing things for them. This fear drives them to create a very hostile environment for the DIL - they try to put her down, make her feel bad, any little mistake is made into a big ISSUE just to undermine the DIL's authority.

In response to this, to protect herself, the younger woman starts putting the older woman down, her family, her ideas etc....If you find that your wife is constantly talking bad about your mom, ask your mom to praise her accomplishments in front of you and your family - see how her attitude changes...

However since your mom herself is battling with huge insecurities believe me if you ask her to praise your wife, she will be very, very, angry with you...And since she does not want to spoil her relations with you, she might do it but later she WILL make it worse on her DIL in a passive aggressive manner.....

Now you might say, what does it matter where the cooking things are? It is such a small thing - let it go...Here is the problem - little drops of water make a mighty ocean. Usually the first 100 things are definitely let go. After that every act adds up. There is a saying a friend once told me - \" a rock-cutter takes 100 blows to break the rock. Do you think it is the 100th blow that broke the rock? No, all the 99 that went before it contributed.\"

Same with DILs, the 100th incident would seem very small to youu taken by itself - but believe me there have been 99 aggressive acts before it happens.

Finally, here comes the million dollar question - you might say, since you women know that our mom's are insecure, why don't you just keep quiet and be more sensitive to her needs? Believe me, many of us do try. However since we have undertaken the HUMUNGOUS task of not only running the family, taking care of kids, their feelings,doing professional work et.c - we are constantly stressed too. Not only are we working \" at work\" we are also working \" at home\" . A hostile environment at home is just the last straw.

Dear Job, probably I am guessing that you dont have sisters. If you do, you might understand that girls (despite it being dinned into their heads that they are moving to sasuraal) feel very, very strongly towards their parents just like guys. Again, think of the changing times. In many cases, not only do our parents toil and toil to educate us, cut corners, count pennies to put us through college so we will be a financial asset but they also shell out lacs and lacs to get us married into a good home.

We look at our parents and we feel exactly as you feel towards yours - a feeling of respect, awe, adoration and finally just pure love - the feeling that without them we would not be where we are. We go into our in-laws homes and see that you feel the same way about your parents - we understand that. But you guys expect us to have different feelings from you just becos we are women - honestly, tell me, if you saw a guy just ditch his parents, wouldn't you feel that guy is a louse? We feel the same way about women who ditch their parents emotionally or financially.

On top of this, in our in-laws place, our parents are criticized for each and every action they do. You see we are all a product of our parents as much as you are a product of yours. So we expect that if there is anything your parents don't like about our parents, they keep it to themselves or say it in a non-hurtful polite fashion - but the favorite taunt for a lot of in-laws is \" your parents didn't raise you right\" , \" they did not do this right\" , etc. etc. Which child would like bad things to be said about their parents? I don't know if you have children, but if you do, would you like it if people kept undermining your actions to your kids?

The war instead of being physical is more psychological - it is done in a subtle fashion to prevent the young couple from latching on to the other family. But if like you say, you are a corporation, for your growth, you should appreciate and take the good points from the other family too - isn't that what is best for you?

In reality what I find happens is that many in-laws copy ideas from the girl's family but constantly put them down.

If you watch sports, I am sure you know how much cheering helps a team perform as well as how much booing makes a team become worse - believe me Job, women are being constantly booed, constantly made to feel inferior - if women come up inspite of this - it is like a team winning in a opponents court, with not even one member of the hometeam around to cheer them up.

I am including a site about bullying here - as you can see workplace bullying is a big issue.
http://ring.uvic.ca/98mar20/Bullying.html
A lot of young women can relate to this happening to us at homes by our in-laws.

And this is also the reason why we wives are angry with men - see point 2. Talk to someone you trust. We trust out husbands and tell them this is happening but you guys don't believe us. Number 6. - take their complaints seriously. This is the same as what others suggested - follow your wife around. See if her points are valid, take her seriously instead of brushing off all that she says.

Number 7. If unsure, see who always needs ot be right? who criticizes other in public? who has selective memory? who fails to take responsibility for their behavior? - do you guys do this?

Number 8. if in a position of authority, intervene early and consistently. This is the point Saheli raises - that many men (and please do not take this personally, I am pointing a finger at you, maybe you are the epitome of authority in your home and keep your mom in hand) are wimps and are scared of their parents - so they refuse to take responsibiltiy or authority and this also goes with 10. courage....

However lot of men are so busy with work and other things, that they refuse to investigate what is going on. Otherwise they are already part of the \" hostile environment\" i.e they are part of the problem of creating a bully-like environment for the DIL.

Please think seriously about this and let me know your views. I strongly believe that if we can convince one man like you to take your wife seriously, give her respect, prevent bullying at home then we can change society.

Please, please try and understand our feelings and see things from our point of view.

Earlier they used to talk about sending women to school and making them literate - now I feel what is really missing is education for men to make them \" see\" the other side - And like you said, if you were not broad-minded you would not even have opened this topic on this forum - so believe me we all appreciate you for writing out your opinion. Unfortunately this is such an emotionally sensitive issue for us that the way in which your email was worded raises very strong feeling in us - perhaps a little more sensitivity in presenting your point of view would be very much appreciated by all of us in this forum.

Neela



job replied. Thanks Saheli,
I guess, you put it down in the best possible way, which i could not have done. There are definately differences of opinions and thats why we generally have discussions. And of course this is not a debate. To put it straight, i grew up seeing my parents take care of my grand parents, and so, i wish to do the same. My kids, i dont know whether its going to happen or not, if it does not, Cest La Vie. My wife is happy with the decision of parents living with us. This was decided even before we got married and we both had agreed. I also have a daughter and honestly, i dont think i will want her to put us in front of her husbands parents. Thats all, and I guess, i wont be making any more comments here. I am sorry to say that i dont see many healthy discussing people, but just debaters who by cursing or swearing want to put their point forward. For all those praying for my wife, i dont think you guys need to pray for her, as she is very happy with this life, and its all with her consent itself. We all as a family strongly believe in our culture and will continue to do so. The respect to wife for me is in terms of the way i treat her in our home or in front of others. And the same applies to my parents who do care about her like their own daughter.
Thanks all for your comments saheli replied. Dear Job ...

POINT 1)
--------
Appreciate. Yes, you do have some valid points.
But donno if there is any use discussing these.

Reasons
A husb-wife relationship shd be based on trust, LOVE, RESPECT, equal understanding, equality, and COMMON OBJECTIVE which is to make family happy, prosperous and progressive.

Though u do seem to have valid points ... not sure how much they make sense, u seem to lack common undstd with wife.
If husb-wife have common understanding, love, trust ... there is no meaning or need of marriage rituals, jaymala, kanyadaan, etc.

Till you have all these notions in your mind, you will be driven by culture's traditions and practices.
PLEASE STOP THINKING ON WHAT IS SPOON-FED BY CULTURE ... USE UR OWN EDUCATED MIND TO DECIDE WHAT IS WRONG/RIGHT.

POINT 2)
--------
I have a request for you.
For 3 days, i want you to do ROLE PLAY of your wife(take a leave for 3 days); do everything that u think wife shd be doing or does.
If not role play, just be after your wife for 2 days .. follow her quietly on everything she does, help her wherever possible.
When your mom is around your wife, hide out and listen to their talks.

when other side is crystal clear to you, u will get ur answers.

Better get it proved than assuming.

POINT 3)
-------
What is the final answer to MIL-DIL? will the DIls ever \" mil\" (kya ke dil milenge\" ?)

The answer is: Survival of the fittest.

Scene 1: Old times, till the time when our moms were bahoos.
- bahoos were weak, dependent. Inlaws were fittest. They ruled. Bahoos suffered. Dowry, chauka choolha, kids, beating up by inlaws, MILs comments, parda. Life was hell for them.

Scene 2: Present times: Educated hubbies and wives, many of them earning. Educated Parents staying with sons. Parents have 'improved', little bit, they are more understanding towards DILs. But they arent out of the IL mindset yet and still think negative.
some bahoos are great - mature, loving, caring, decisive.
Some Bahoos have got little pampered as they hv started earning and are not dependant anymore. Family clashes are high.

People are well off, and family is high priority. Job stress is in. Men cant bear job stress and family clashes together.

Trend of DINK or DISK is in (double income no kid, dbl income single kid)

Conclusion? The bahoo-species is getting stronger. In-law species is little weaker.

Scene 3: Day after tomorrow. Our kids/grand kids are married/living in. The DILs dont want kids, they prefer freedom. Also, they will need in-laws to take care of kids. no kids, no jhik-jhik. DILs dont tolerate in-laws so they stay away, or back-answer inlaws of staying together. (and these inlaws will be WE)
Hubbies will follow wives.
Nuclear families, old parents aolne. Family system dieing .. we going US ways.

Another possibility: Couples love to have family - 1/2 kids. Prefer elders to take care instead of maid/creche. For some, inlaws are in, for others, wife's parents are staying together. Everybody needs each other, so there is no bossing. An ideal scene (some salt will be there).

Either ways, fittest species is DILs, inlaws are weakest.

First possibility seems more.
*******************************

Exaggeration is the rule of nature. When in-laws rules, they laid attrocities on bahoos. When DILs will rule, parents will suffer.
Perfect balance is not possible.

*******************************

AND ALL THIS WHILE, ............. YOU MEN HAVE BEEN WATCHING THE TAMASHA .... AND WILL KEEP WATCHING THE TAMASHA.
job replied. Hi there,
If i was of a closed mind and with an attitude, i guess, i wont be discussing on this topic. Discussion means give and take of opinions, agreeing or not agreeing to others opinions. I am putting my point of view, and in none of my messages have i said anything about anybody. I respect all of you there and expect the same. Regarding the question that you just put forth, why i cannot accept my in-laws as family, but just as close relatives is that my wife has married into our family and not me marrying into her family. she has adopted my family and not the vice versa. regarding her parents, i did mention in my last message that if she did not have a brother, i can understand supporting them or taking care of them, however, for the girl, her first priority should be this family and not the family that she is supposed to have left behind. The rituals which were made centuries back were not made without any reason. I dont say that all of them are correct. i agree changing with times, but, there could be a fine balance between the two. My question also is has time really changed?? and to what extent? are women in India so independent that they can completely take care of their own? i am not saying that women are inferior, its just that they are different, they have their own strong points and so do men. in the same way, both have their own weak points. My point is that think of family as a corporate organization, where there is one boss and other employee joins in, the employee is eased into the organization with new responsibilities with time, eventually, the boss retires and the new employee becomes the boss, what i am saying is about a smooth transition like that. please correct me if i am wrong in thinking like that. job replied. Hello Everybody,
I would like to apoligise to all the ladies who seem to be disgusted, angry, shocked, anguished etc. However, just as you have your point of view, I just raised my opinion. I dont think there is any reason to say that i am a jerk. I dont know which vedas or upanishads you guys are referring to which states that wife is first priority. Please let me know(and this is no sarcasm, i really mean it, and would like to know about it) When i wrote about the hindu rituals, i meant the various rituals during marraige, like the traditional engangement before marraige, when the guys father accepts the girl as their daughter-in-law(which is basically daughter), or the kanyadaan which means donation(please dont take it literally)basically, what it signifies is that the girl needs to accept the in-laws place as her own. Of course, there is also the responsibility of the in-laws to accept her as a daughter and an equal partner respectively for parents and the guy. I never mentioned about the girl to be made a servant, but a family member who has every right to say about right or wrong. I never said that the DIL should just take whatever is doled out to them however, what i meant was that if things could be worked out amicably, its better. Moreover, I am not an expert, i formed an opinion based on my own household and the ones that i have seen which is not a statistics in thousands. I just wanted to have a healthy discussion, where you ladies could be right, and i could be wrong, so if possible, please keep the language clean. Also, regarding the girls parents where there is no son, i understand the girl supporting them, but, where there is a son, i would say that it should be the responsibility of the son and his wife to take care of his parents Swapna replied. to see what an Indian guy can write on IL's and DIL's of which they have absolutely no clue about.Mr.Job ,before you start questioning about DIL's attitude towards her IL's ,do an honest soul search and put yourself in a DIL's shoes and try to answer all the questions you put forth.

Dont you ladies think that they had sacrificed their privacy for their children, just as you would in coming years for your kids. Now, when its time for you to adjust, you want to get out of the responsibility in the name of privacy and independence?

-yes ,if they have sacrificed their privacy for their son,so I would be doing it for mine.So we both are eqaual,me no less a sacrificer than you.So what are trying to prove?

why dont you follow it completely where a guy gets out of the house as soon as he turns around 15 and starts fighting his own life.

-Its your problem and not the DIL's.So get out of the house and try to be indepenedent.Who's stopping you?

nterfering is definately going to be there, but, can it not be taken in a positive sense and the parents told politely about it? Does there always need to be a fight between MIL and DIL?

-excuse me,nobody fights at the word go.Only after a lot of endurance and patience runs out,the time comes for a drastic action.

Specially, when the ladies are all well educated and have excellent manners?

-Ok,Im educated and well mannered,but if your parents are not mature for their AGE ,then you can expect me to be the same with education.

so if his parents scold them, they think that no outsider is supposed to tell them anything. Would they do the same thing if their own parents had told them something similar?

-So if your wife's parents were to scold you in front of her family ,please try to brush it off ,as they are not only her parents but also yours

Your parents who raised you guys for more than 20 years, or the wife with whom you have spent less than 10 % of that time??

-Same question to your wife,who's her priority-her parents who raised her for 25 years or you or your wife who she was with for only a couple of years?

By the way, i am a guy who respects my wife's parents however do maintain that they are not a part of our family,

-When I read your post at the start,I thought maybe you could be a different guy.But your last sentence proves what a jackass you are?All the q's you raised about DIl getting married to parents,why cant she consider her IL's as parenst are all down the drain now.You are such a narrow minded ,mean husband ,just like the millions of other Indian husbands out there.No point in talking to you,your parents are to be blamed for bringing you up like this.God save Indian DIL's from these pathetic husbands and IL's

BTW,why dont you call urself MR.Jobless? saheli replied. \" Hello everybody,
With all due respect to all the DILs sharing their opinions in this forum, I understand that life is not easy for a woman who leaves her home of 25 years or so to adjust to the new culture and family ideologies.\"
- o really? glad to read that.
Happy to see men thinking on these lines, sharing views. A clear 2 way commn between so called \" budhdhijivi log\" can only try solve these probs.

\" However, I wanted to ask all the sons and DILs a question of why they have a problem in having parents at their place? Specially the guys parents? Dont you think that they have an equal right over their son as you have over your husband? \"
- of course they have. u r right.

\" Most of the hindu marraiges of different cultures are pretty much the same. If you look closely at the marraige rituals, what they mean is that the daughter is married to the entire family and not only to the guy. His parents become her parents and his family becomes her family. That is basically the culture of India.\"
- u r right again. But u r forgetting one point. Its not just the girl who is married to family, the family also has a new FAMILY-MEMBER and not a witch/servant.

What you males forget is: IN A FAMILY, IT IS THE DUTY AND RESPONSIBILITY OF EVERY MEMBER TO MAKE THE FAMILY A SUCCESS. Be it your mom/father/even the kid. How many times does a father help in the house? How many times does a MIL share the load?

\" Based on culture and also ethics, i guess, its the responsibility of the guy to take care of his parents and his wife being an important part of his family also follow suit.\"

-True, but one sided again. Have u watched Kabhi Alvida na kehna? Preety zinta asks \" why does the woman hv to sacrifice always?\" and her MIL answers \" kyonki usme zyada takat hoti hai\" . How True. Bt it also has a hidden fact. That .. you men are not so strong to handle both parties. You breakdown soon, you ppl dont share your feelings, you ppl cant decide who is right, and even if u ppl know who is right... you dont have the guts to do justice.

It finally ends up in the female sacrificing but burning inside, and the guy doing nothing (by the way, how many of u guys really follow the point u said? .. do u do it?)

\" Dowry related harrassments, i understand should not be considered as that is wrong on the part of the guys parents, and i dont mind hanging them upside down and giving them a good spanking.\"

- 10 points to u
right u r!

\" But, the issue of privacy and independence. Dont you ladies think that they had sacrificed their privacy for their children, just as you would in coming years for your kids. Now, when its time for you to adjust, you want to get out of the responsibility in the name of privacy and independence? Thats the culture of the western countries, and there is nothing wrong in that, but in that case, why dont you follow it completely where a guy gets out of the house as soon as he turns around 15 and starts fighting his own life. Here, you want to stay with your parents till you are 23-24 and as soon as you become financially independent, you want to have your privacy forgetting that just like you were dependent on your parents for the first 20 odd years of your life, your parents are dependent on you for the last 20 odd years of their life.\"

-might be. But for most girls who start earning before marriage, i hv seen them pampering their parents like anything. Most girls are aware of what u hv mentioned above, and they simply love their parents and pamper them with the money they earn. So i dont really agree. Women like me, who earn, do that even after marriage..

\" Interfering is definately going to be there, but, can it not be taken in a positive sense and the parents told politely about it?\"

- Agree about interfering. Perfecttion is never possible.

- And u r talking about telling politely to parents about it? haha ... who are u telling dear? we wives? It is YOUR responsibility to bell your cats .. which u guys NEVER do.

\" Does there always need to be a fight between MIL and DIL? Specially, when the ladies are all well educated and have excellent manners? The problem, that i have observed with many ladies these days is that they are not able to accept the guys family as their own,\"

- you know, u r not quite wrong. Just like MILs, it is also put in the minds of DILs that in-laws are bad. And some well-educated females forget their etiqettes/manners/COMMOM SENSE/etc and behave like illeterate people by closing their minds towards ILs

\" so if his parents scold them, they think that no outsider is supposed to tell them anything.\"
- this is also right, but not totally. Because, the ILs (in laws) also keep finding faults and scolding/pointing the DIL ... and believe me .. this is more than they wd do with their children.

And everybody has own ego/self esteem (and some educated, earning women have it little more!)

U tell me honestly... wd u like it if ur wife's mother keeps suggesting and nagging you every 3 days? If u say u can take this, then u can expect from us.

\" Would they do the same thing if their own parents had told them something similar?\"
- YES, but if it is say 3 times for MIL, it will be after 6 times for mom. You or we ... we wd object to a nagging mom/dad if its getting on our nerves.

\" Also, i ask the guys that what is your priority? Your parents who raised you guys for more than 20 years, or the wife with whom you have spent less than 10 % of that time??\"

- heheheh ... sara jhagda yahi se shuru hota hai biradar. U men are weak, cant decide whose side. Even if some men see parents are wrong, they keep quiet. And yes, i m not saying they shd fight with parents. m just putting our side.
Another bitter fact is, parents wont b forever. Guys hv to ultimately spend life with wife ... and THEY ARE PHYSICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY DEPENDENT ON WIFE.... khana tak nahi kha sakte biwi ke bina ... revolt kya karenge even if wife is wrong?

Remember .. a man or woman needs a partnet MORE in his old age than any other time of life. And the foundation of this relationship is laid in early years. If start of ur relationship is negative ... remember .. the wife will take it forever and never forget.

\" By the way, i am a guy who respects my wife's parents however do maintain that they are not a part of our family, they may be close relatives, however, not an integral part of our families.\"

- why so? if u expect us to treat hubbys parents as our parents, why not vice versa?
what thought process made u decide this? If u think women is an inferior species, then u dont need to start this conversation at all.

**********

Alright.
Dear 'Job' ... it was good to see a man's line of thoughts on this. Because i m sure many of our's husbands think like u.

U r perfectly right in thinking like that for your parents. Pls take care of ur parents, they hv done a lot for u.

But remember, they are YOUR parents, not your wife's. They will NEVER think same as u for her. Take a simple example - see the way they treat maid/sabjiwala/rikshawala/shopkeepers/beggars .... the mentality is like \" these people suck us, bargain as much possible, and they have no respect/self esteem\" .

M not saying DIL is treated like that.

What i am saying is, these same God-like people forget simple humanity when it comes to 5 mins interaction with people like these. Why will they treat the age-old evil of DIL like their children?

Let me give u a more simple example...

A wife can think of adopting a baby from orphanage instead of havign her own. The \" motherhood\" is inbuilt. She will be like real mother as she develops bond while taking care of the baby.
Now ask her hubby ... he will say \" No adoption, because i wont get the feeling of my own child with this baby.\"

When you cant accept a baby like that (actually the bond lacks), why do u think InLaws will accpet?
***************

Wd love to see ur reply. vimpi replied. To Job and others,
Indian Culture based largely on Hindu philosophy preaches:
1. One has to prepare oneself to leave the world in a dignified way. Control your drives, ego and desires as old age approaches. Infact it even talks of vanaprastha and sanyasashram. Does anyone follow this culture any more? On the other hand you will see the senior generation wanting to have as much fun as the younger generation Try telling them to read the Gita and they will tell you we have already read it we would rather watch trash on Z tv instead and poke our noses in our sons affairs and ruin his life.
2.Nowhere does it say in any scripture that a parent should go and live in their kids homes and act like it is theirs. This is because in the days when scriptures were written joint family system existed and all old people hung out together and not with their kids. The joint family system broke down after Indian Independance some time in late forties and fifties and majority of those who are inlaws now basically enjoyed living just by themselves and their kids leaving their parents behind in some village or another city. They might have gone to help them when they were ill or gone there to perform their last rites but majority enjoyed the single family structure where they concentrated on raising their own kids. But the same generation now will not allow their children to just concentrate on raising their kids. My MIL even complains all she does is take care of her kids she does not take care of us! Let us not even get into how demanding she is!
3. Our parents generation made so called sacrifices for us so that we may do the same for our kids. Where did this thing come in where parents tell their kids Hey I gave in to your demands when you were a kid so now you give in to my demands?
The Gita preaches \" DO not expect fruits of your labor, just perform your actions selflessly\" . if the current gaeneration of parents performed their actions as per what Indian culture preaches how come they just they have all these expectations from their kids, especially when their own parents just let them go to make their own lives without imposing on them and living with them?
3. For those whose kids are living outside India, when the parents are unable to adjust to a foreign lifestyle why not live in India and follow the lifestyle they were familiar with? Why go there and live with your kids and impose the parents lifestyle on them? Just as they went back to the parnets to stay for brief periods to help out incase their parents were ill or they had to perform their last rites, even the kids living abroard can visit their parents for brief periods if they need some help now and then or if their last rites have to be performed. After all in todays world with all the hitech communication and transport facilities it takes less time for a kid abroad to reach his parents home than it took our parents time to reaxh their parents home in the village! Ther is absolutely no need for the parents to move in with their kids and ruin their life. SR replied. Hi

I do not agree with you at all!!! You say you respect your inlaws.. but they are not part of your family!!! And at the same time you want your wife to consider your parents as her family!!! That is not fair at all. Your parents are her extended family exactly the same way as her parents are your relatives.
Maybe a MIL should try and learn how to treat the DIL like a daughter if she does not want all the disputes taking place. In my case my MIL is so much sympathetic towards her daughter..who lives in a mansion.. has a full time maid and cook etc.. and does not work...always worrying about her how she manages with her housework etc etc..but no sympathy towards me who works full time.. we have a maid who comes only once a week and I am expected to manage home life and work life at the same time. Such attitudes them make the DIL distant from MILs.
If a guy wants respect for his parents.. he should respect his inlaws.
Just the way a girl leaves her parents for the guy.. the guy can do the same and get a separate house where the couple can start their new life.
I am not saying cutting links with parents.. but help them..look after them etc .. and at the same time give your wife the importance she deserves.
Your wife should be the no1 person in your life... then your parents... as it is your wife who will be looking after you in your old age.. and not your parents. It is your wife you will go to first when you have a problem.. not your parents. It is your wife you will go to when you want your sexual desires to be fulfilled.. not your parents. It is your wife who will be the mother of your children.. not your parents.

Sort yourself out and give some respect to your wife before it is too late!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! savitha replied. while i agree that parents r an integral part of ur life...our mariagge rituals..blah blah...,mr.job, our vedas & upanishads say that after marriage ur spouse(wife) is ur 1st priority..then kids & later ur parents...when some one says bring along ur family, they mean ur wife & kids...not ur parents.family visa is issued for wife & kids. while i am not saying that there shd be disharmony b/w fly members, at the same time man shd not take his wife for granted..if u want ur parents to be loved & respected, do the same for ur in-laws. man has be be smart enough to balance the relationship with his mom & wife. just becuz u r a man, can't tell ur wife or mom its ur head ache u manage. man has to take responsibility to see harmony at home. a replied. To quote you \" I ask the guys that what is your priority? Your parents who raised you guys for more than 20 years, or the wife with whom you have spent less than 10 % of that time?? \"

Do you think its only a guys parents that raise him for 20 years? Don't the girl's parents raise the girl with as much love and affection as a guys parents? So then what should the girl's priority be? HER parents who raised her for more than 20 years, or her husband and his parents with whom she has spent less than 10 % of that time??

Don't get me wrong. I am not asking the wives to fight with her in-laws or not to adjust with them. But I think if a husband gives his parents more priority than his wife then he should not expect his wife to give him or his parents more priority than the priority that she gives her parents either. Not surprised replied. We girls are getting sick of this attitude. Put yourself in the girl's shoes and then think what you have to sacrifice to be with a jerk like you! You want your wife to be married to your whole family and you would not think of her family as a part of yours? May God change this dirty mind of yours!!! ABCD replied. You want your wife to sleep with you when you want it .... slog her ass for your parents, be your slave and their slave, treat your parents like hers and you mention that her parents are not an integral part of your family....

Because guys like you have such kinds of thoughts, girls don't like a man's parents to be an integral part of \" her\" life!!!!!